David Whiting son of Max Whiting

[Anonymous]

Good morning,

I am keen to contact David Whiting son of Max Whiting (630 Squadron) and would sincerely appreciate any assistance to this end.

Thank you

PeterS

 

• This topic was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Tony Gunby.

[Anonymous]

Peter,

I am in frequent contact with David as we have an interest in the same crew. I have drawn his attention to this thread.

Thank you for the extensive information which you have published. It was previously unknown to me. Does the Association have details and a link from the website?

I had likewise no knowledge of the RAF Museum sources which you quote. Are copies available or did you have to visit to view?

Please may I draw your attention to the TNA information on how to cite their holdings:
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/citing-documents-national-archives/

That will help make things clearer, especially if you list the piece numbers.

You say that you have been able to correct many aircraft serials and crew names in the ORBs. What is your protocol for this and have you noted the changes in pertinent entries (eg giving both “correct” and “ORB” references)?

As for individual records, you state that Probert’s tour ended with Amiens on 19/20 May 1944 but then list him on the next op – Mining Kiel on 21/22 May. This was remembered as their 29th and last by Alan Payne.

As regards the loss of LL950 on this last date, I see that you have quoted from Flensted.eu.com with giving any credit.
Please note that the unsubstantiated and un-referenced German details are open to much argument, especially when one reads the relevant pages in TNA: AIR 14 and AIR 24.

At
Aircrew
you say that Whiting was a Sergeant but he was commissioned on 9/1/44 (London Gazette). I also think it would be helpful to list his crew captains chronologically.

I am sure David will be in touch soon.

[Anonymous]

Hello Stuart, thanks for getting in touch.  Yes we have been in touch with Wendy Rothery some weeks ago.

I appreciate your kind comments on the information published, it was originally intended to be a book but we have so much information to be loaded up that it would have run into multiple volumes and publishers were wary, probably because they were always more interested in their profit margin than the subject.

Thanks for the details which need updating, we’ll get that checked against the documents and done.  Some of the “credit” references for official bodies/archives were held in a different file and some did not survive the “upload” to the internet and are being manually corrected.   Corrections which we have made on our background data records do get mentioned in the text if they appear there, ie instances where the Air27 shows 2 different crews operating the same aircraft simultaneously.  Corrections to names and initials in our background database (all aircraft/crews/etc operating each night) and our central register of aircrew are updated based on postwar documentary evidence,  the other operational data sources, contacts from the chaps themselves, log books, service records, family providing material, etc.

We’re delighted to hear from you

kind regards PeterS

 

The records of the RAF Museum can be viewed in the reading room there.

 

 

[Anonymous]

<Corrections which we have made on our background data records do get mentioned in the text if they appear there

Have you corrected any other serials?  I am thinking mainly about where the serial given in the ORB is simply wrong.  Have you corrected any ORB refs where the Movement Card shows it was not on squadron at the time or where the serial just does not relate to a Lancaster?  Have you cross-referenced the pilots’ usual mounts to throw up instances of transposition of letters or numbers?  Further, if you have done this work, is it noted in your narrative that you have made a correction to the ORB data?

[Anonymous]

Hi Stuart,

we have used the Movement Cards and Aircraft Loss Cards and actually one of my colleagues is part way transcribing these onto the website as you’ll see from the aircraft at the top of the list. We also had extremely valuable access to primary source material at Air Historical Branch, AR9a, AR8b and S10j for over a decade.

Yes we have identified incorrect serial numbers (and aircraft codes as well) where wartime clerks keeping the ORB’s had made typo’s – we did it using the alternative sources such as Air50’s and copies of Battle Orders, supplemented by log books and the record materials explained in the Sources sub-section on the website – source notes are maintained on our background system.   RAF Lists and London Gazettes have been used to correct names and initials on some occasions, Log books have also been used sometimes to verify who flew as have Air2’s.

Please feel free to contact us on        research630@btinternet.com

kind regards PeterS

 

[Anonymous]

Clearly a chef d’oeuvre! I am still intrigued though by your rationale – if you have a number of sources covering the same data, how do you decide which one is correct (assuming all are potentially legitimate)?

[Anonymous]

Hi Stuart

I’m sorry I dont do French, but I hope that this helps as an example – if the Air27 records one particular aircraft serial flown by 2 different crews on the same Op, we check against the different sources available and any copies of log books held, etc, and identify which crew flew which aircraft.

If we have a serial number for an aircraft which is wrong, nonexistent, a different aircraft type or not a 630 Squadron aircraft we check to see if it was borrowed (ie: 57, 207, 619 or similar) and/or check the alternative sources to identify which is the correct serial based on the other sources agreeing.

The basis of our corrections (and there are not that many) is that if the ORB is incorrect but an alternative serial is supplied by logbooks/RAF Museum 630 Ops log or RAF Museum 630 Bombing logs, etc, then we remove the obviously incorrect serial and we use the one which is supported by contemporary documentary evidence.

I noted your point above on Max Whiting’s promotion and did reply but cant see my reply now – maybe I didnt hit SUBMIT properly ?    Our list of aircrew is driven by our Central Registry of 630 aircrew and currently (because none of us are experts with WordPress as yet) we are limited by the number of fields we can display on that published list, so we could either show the rank on joining the squadron or the final rank with the squadron. We chose the rank on joining.  An awkwardness with the final rank is that a chap may have FTR from Ops as a Sergt but could have had a posthumous promotion or commissioning (many RCAF and RAAF lads did) or if POW he was also likely to have been promoted later.  It is a development thing which we’ll get to when we have time.  Sadly all but one of us is still in full time work of the mortgage paying type.

Kind regards Peter

 

[Tony Gunby]

I’m David Whiting, and with age plus our protracted move from our home in France to Portugal, I forget if I responded to your request.

Please contact me by email at ahimsa83@gmail.com

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